Seems App-O-Rama is getting a lot more popular, especially as its becoming more profitable to deposit 0% money into bank accounts paying 5-6% or more. With some people acquiring six figure total CC limits, it is becoming possible to make several THOUSAND dollars per year doing an App-O-Rama.
1. How it started
It started innocent enough - I just wanted to shop for products that required credit inquiries all at once, instead of spacing inquries out every few months. This way I could get a bunch of credit, and all the inquiries would be gone 2 years later. I found out a lot of interesting things along the way (like some credit report services will not COUNT same-day inquiries) which reinforced the benefits of an App-O-Rama strategy.
2. How many cards should I get?
Usually 2-3 cards PER ISSUER (Chase, Citi, AMEX, BoA, etc...) is the most a person with perfect credit can reasonably expect, before you start running into rejections for "multiple applications." I like my App-O-Ramas to include about 10-20 cards. Depends entirely on your personal needs and credit situation.
3. When should I do the App-O-Rama?
Since some credit reporting services used by lenders deduct SAME DAY inquiries, I want as many inquiries to hit on the same day as possible. So I start early in the morning (most banks are on East Coast time) during the beginning/middle of the week. Some applications pull your credit as soon as you submit an online or phone app, some send the application to the "back office" for further processing, and they may not pull credit till later that day, or a few days later. We don't seem to be able to control when the lender will actually perform the pull.
4. Should I get joint cards or authorized user cards?
I say no. See this post on the evils of joint accounts. If you get just individual cards, EACH person can apply for the same card, potentially getting greater total credit lines.
5. I got approved for a card, but it came with a small credit limit because I have other higher limit cards with that issuer. What should I do?
Don't worry, see this post which lists many issuers that let you move or reallocate the credit lines, so you can move a large portion of your credit lines to the card with the best offer.
6. What are some risks of App-O-Rama?
A poorly thought out App-O-Rama won't help you much, but shouldn't hurt you beyond the credit inquiry hits. However, there have been instances of people experiencing adverse effects on their credit when lenders got spooked. Of course, if you spend all that newfound credit, it could spell financial disaster for you. And don't even think of trying to apply for a bunch of credit just to default or leave the country.
7. How much are people making doing this?
A lot. For someone with a good credit profile, $200-300k in new credit lines during one App-O-Rama is not unheard of. And with some creative reallocating of existing credit lines, and high interest deposit acccounts, profit of $15-20,000 or more per YEAR is possible. Do I think this qualifies as an all time great deal? Yes. But only if done right. Those with limited credit history, small credit lines, etc will not be able to get such large credit lines. See this thread for some tips on where to put your money.
8. Tell us your stories!
There have been MANY App-O-Rama success stories posted. I linked to some below. Please feel free to post your own App-O-Rama story in this thread.
9. I still have more questions. Help!
While I cannot spend all my time answering PM's , I will try to help those get started if you PM me and ask nicely ;-)
Links
App-O-Rama site current list of decent credit cards
How to make money using 0% balance transfer offers
Excellent synopsis of a recent App-O-Rama
Disadvantages of Joint Credit Accounts
Credit card issuers that allow credit limit reallocation
Based heavily on a post by SUCKISSTAPLES
Full Version: App-O-Rama FAQ
Which cards will let you reallocate credit lines among multiple cards with the same issuer?
AMEX YES
NOTE however, that there has been prior discussion in this forum of some problems reallocating bc certain AMEX cards are issued by 2 different banks: AMEX and AMEX Centurion. No limit on # of cards you can have. FW members have reported problems or being asked for financial documentation on accounts having credit lines exceeding $20k.
BANK OF AMERICA YES
But the card from which the credit line is being moved must be closed.
BANKONE YES
I reallocated all of my $5000 from my Yahoo! visa to my 1% cash back card.
CHASE YES even from personal to business cards (but not vice versa).
No limit on # of cards you can have, but some have reported additional documentation/procedures may be necessary for very high credit lines.
CITIBANK YES
I had 2 high limit Citi cards, then applied for the AT&T 5% Citi card. They gave me a $500 limit but offered to reallocate in a letter sent the same time as the new cards (glad they knew I wouldnt be happy with that limit). I moved $4000 off each of my Citi Dividend and Exxon Mastercards to my new AT&T Universal card. Other members report you may only have 3 Citi cards.
FIRST USA YES
Earlier this year I closed two accounts and conolidated the credit line to one card. (just don't tell the wife we have a credit card with a 60k line of credit)
DISCOVER NO
JUNIPER BANK YES
(Tivo MC, Frontier Airlines MC).
MBNA YES
This is for "original" MBNA cards before BofA merger.
This information is taken from a number of posts. Please post if you have any updated information.
AMEX YES
NOTE however, that there has been prior discussion in this forum of some problems reallocating bc certain AMEX cards are issued by 2 different banks: AMEX and AMEX Centurion. No limit on # of cards you can have. FW members have reported problems or being asked for financial documentation on accounts having credit lines exceeding $20k.
BANK OF AMERICA YES
But the card from which the credit line is being moved must be closed.
BANKONE YES
I reallocated all of my $5000 from my Yahoo! visa to my 1% cash back card.
CHASE YES even from personal to business cards (but not vice versa).
No limit on # of cards you can have, but some have reported additional documentation/procedures may be necessary for very high credit lines.
CITIBANK YES
I had 2 high limit Citi cards, then applied for the AT&T 5% Citi card. They gave me a $500 limit but offered to reallocate in a letter sent the same time as the new cards (glad they knew I wouldnt be happy with that limit). I moved $4000 off each of my Citi Dividend and Exxon Mastercards to my new AT&T Universal card. Other members report you may only have 3 Citi cards.
FIRST USA YES
Earlier this year I closed two accounts and conolidated the credit line to one card. (just don't tell the wife we have a credit card with a 60k line of credit)
DISCOVER NO
JUNIPER BANK YES
(Tivo MC, Frontier Airlines MC).
MBNA YES
This is for "original" MBNA cards before BofA merger.
This information is taken from a number of posts. Please post if you have any updated information.
While we have touched on this topic in many threads, I dont think we've ever had a discussion about the evils of joint credit accounts, joint mortgages, etc.
Joint credit accounts are really nothing more than COSIGNED loans (and by now we all know that cosigning is generally bad!)
Disadvantages of Joint Credit Accounts
1. A Late payment dings both credit reports
2. Both individual's debt/income ratios affected by balances reporting to the bureaus
3. Get only 1 credit card signup promo/ 1/2 the rewards cap of 2 separate accounts
4. If CC stolen, can affect both credit reports until corrected
5. Problematic if going through divorce/separation
6. If accounts closed, you may have no individual credit under your own name
etc etc etc.
It is generally best to keep ALL credit accounts (auto, credit card, home loans) separate and individual, whether before, during or after marriage. There are some instances where a joint account will be required (ie to qualify for a home loan of a certain size), but if a debt can be placed in 1 persons name alone, choose that option!
Joint bank/deposit accounts also share many of the same negative characteristics:
Disadvantages of Joint Bank/Deposit Accounts
1. A bounced check dings both people on Chex Systems
2. Get only 1 bank account signup promo, whereas you could get 2 if have individual accounts
3. If ATM stolen, can affect both people until corrected. With 2 separate accounts, the funds in other other account wont be affected
4. Problematic if going through divorce/separation (commingling of assets, etc).
Like Nancy Reagan said, Joints are bad - JUST SAY NO!
Based heavily on post by SUCKISSTAPLES
Joint credit accounts are really nothing more than COSIGNED loans (and by now we all know that cosigning is generally bad!)
Disadvantages of Joint Credit Accounts
1. A Late payment dings both credit reports
2. Both individual's debt/income ratios affected by balances reporting to the bureaus
3. Get only 1 credit card signup promo/ 1/2 the rewards cap of 2 separate accounts
4. If CC stolen, can affect both credit reports until corrected
5. Problematic if going through divorce/separation
6. If accounts closed, you may have no individual credit under your own name
etc etc etc.
It is generally best to keep ALL credit accounts (auto, credit card, home loans) separate and individual, whether before, during or after marriage. There are some instances where a joint account will be required (ie to qualify for a home loan of a certain size), but if a debt can be placed in 1 persons name alone, choose that option!
Joint bank/deposit accounts also share many of the same negative characteristics:
Disadvantages of Joint Bank/Deposit Accounts
1. A bounced check dings both people on Chex Systems
2. Get only 1 bank account signup promo, whereas you could get 2 if have individual accounts
3. If ATM stolen, can affect both people until corrected. With 2 separate accounts, the funds in other other account wont be affected
4. Problematic if going through divorce/separation (commingling of assets, etc).
Like Nancy Reagan said, Joints are bad - JUST SAY NO!
Based heavily on post by SUCKISSTAPLES
This is my first attempt at an AOR and in contrast to many others, I decided to refrain from posting my version until after I had completed all the material segments.
As shown below, I broke my AOR into four main stages:
Preparation:
Here, I organized my pre-AOR cards in a way I thought to be most beneficial to the
actual AOR.
Implementation:
This is where I actually submitted the apps for all the new credit.
Maximization:
Here, I completed all my balance transfers in order to maximize my profits.
Finalization:
Here I discuss what I did with my AOR funds, the results, and my comments. While I
was happy with my first AOR, there were definitely things that I could have done
better (these are discussed in Stage 4).
Hopefully, someone will find this information interesting and/or useful.
Credit Profile before beginning my AOR (as of 12/1/2005): FICO scores: 763/744/730
*0% until 12/06
Stage 1: Preparation - Restructuring my current cards for a more effective usage of an AOR
•I requested credit line increases on all cards without a hard pull on my credit report. If
not available, I did nothing in order to avoid a pre-AOR credit score hit.
•I had my lovely wife add me to her MBNA Chicago Bulls card with a 1992 history and $25k
limit in order to increase my credit history and size of average CL.
•I consolidated my Chase Sony card into the other three Chase cards so that I have a 20K+
limit on each of the 3 remaining cards, and thus, in my opinion, increased the possibility
of larger lines on new cards from my AOR. This move also decreased my overall # of Chase
cards in order to increase the possibility of approval for new cards with 0% promos from
the AOR. Despite the "never close a line" rule, I felt that the benefits, as stated above,
outweighed the costs of eliminating this card that was opened in 2004.
•I consolidated my AT&T Universal Platinum into my Citibank Diamond Preferred Rewards card
for a total new credit line of $13,500 in order to take advantage of a 0%, 12 month, no fee
BT to "refresh" my only current 0% balance on one of my Chase cards. Once again, I thought
the benefits outweighed the costs here. The card was only opened in 2004, so not a big hit
to my average age. Plus, I wanted to keep my utilization low with the $6,000 BT, thus the
transfer of the full credit line to the Diamond Preferred card. Finally, this lowered my
total Citi cards to just one, increasing my odds of multiple approvals for new Citi cards w
with 0%/no fee BT promos from my AOR.
Credit Profile after Stage 1 was completed:
*0% until 12/06
Stage 1 Results:
•I increased my overall credit by $39,500 without any hits to my credit score via hard
pulls. Individual card average increased from $10,900 to $16,500.
•I went from zero to four credit lines of $20,000 or more. I theorize that this will help me
get larger lines during the actual AOR
•I decreased my Chase cards to 3 and my Citi cards to 1 in order to open more "spots" for
new cards from these issuers during the actual AOR
•I extended my current 0% deal for another 12 months without any fees.
•I helped to increase my overall credit history by adding my wife's 1994 MBNA card.
•I indirectly lowered my overall average age by consolidating two cards obtained in 2004. I
realize that this will have a negative impact when I open all the new AOR accounts in 2006.
I felt that the additional benefits, as previously stated, outweighed this.
Stage 2: Implementation
FICO scores as of 2/1/2006: 744/746/757
I performed the AOR on a weekday morning, started early, and submitted all applications online to increase efficiency.
Credit Profile after Stage 2 was completed: FICO score as of 4/10/2006: 747(Transunion)
Stage 2 Results:
•All cards applied for were approved
•I more than tripled my total available credit when compared to pre-Stage 1 results
•Created more than $160,000 in 0% balance transfer opportunities
•Earned $275.00 in cash rebates by applying through cardoffers.com (received check on 6/6/06)
•Earned a net $1,200.00 in Home Depot gift cards through card point bonuses (AMEX Platinum,
Gold Rewards Plus, and Citibank Professional Rewards). These gift cards were sold on eBay
when received.
•Earned various other hotel, airfare, Ipod rewards/credits
Stage 3: BT Maximization
•I reallocated 20,000 from my Chase Platinum Visa and 15,000 from my Chase Yahoo Visa to my
second Chase Platinum Visa for a total credit line of $55,000 in order to maximize a 0% BT
opportunity on that card.
•I consolidated BofA Choice Priveleges card into BofA Platinum Visa in order to maximize BT
offer for a total credit line of 11,900 and then reapplied for the Choice Priveleges card
for a $3K CL in order to get 3 more free nights.
•I also reallocated 8,000 from Citibank Dividend Rewards to Citibank Platinum Select in
order to take further advantage of 0% BT rate
•I had other BT offers, but only used those that had a BT fee that was not profit
prohibitive (usually $50 or less). I also requested 15K BT on applications if the option was available and I was sure of the 0% rate.
Ending credit profile as of 7/1/06
Recent Credit Scores since finishing the AOR:
•Transunion FICO Credit score as of 6/10/06: 683
•Transunion FICO Credit score as of 7/10/06: 622
•Transunion FICO Credit score as of 8/10/06: 642
8/17/06:
Received letters from Chase stating that they were closing 5 of my 6 credit card accounts due to "balances too high compared to credit limit, number of accts currently in use, and balance owed on revolving accts too high". The only account left open was my Platinum account where I had a $48K 0% BT. All the other cards had a zero balance. I called Chase in order to get the cards reopened. After providing them with proof of enough liquid assets to cover my liabilities, they agreed to reopen all the cards.
Stage 4: Finalization
•approximately $100K of my 170K balance transfer money went into my HSBC savings account
currently at 5% interest.
•Approximately $50K of my 170K balance transfer money went into my eTrade brokerage account.
I used this money to trade mutual funds and individual stocks. To date, I have made 6 stock
trades, netting approx. $4,000.00. I also have an unrealized gain of $1,200 on a mutual
fund that I purchased using the BT money.
•Approximately $20K of my 170L balance transfer money went into another savings account that
I have more direct access to than HSBC. This is to ensure that I have access to some cash
in case my one of my balances become unexpectedly called due to a missed payment, etc.
•While I have earned an excellent return by trading stocks on the BT money, I would not
recommend it to inexperienced investors, nor will I do it again myself. In general, I
consider myself an intermediate trader that usually utilizes trends and statistics, as opposed to
emotions and speculation, and only trade in a handful of stocks that I have been tracking
for the past few years. While my net result was a gain of approx. $4K, I did get nailed on
two trades for losses one of which was a purely speculative trade where I luckily did not
lose much more. I believe that the stress of trading with "other people's money" is not
worth the gain that I have achieved to date in this area. If I perform any additional AOR's
in the future, I plan to park all of the money in more conservative investments such as high yield
savings accounts.
•In addition, if I do another AOR, I would plan my card selections much more carefully.
While my results were good, I feel that I missed out on some rewards and BT opportunities
that I would have found if I had planned better.
•Finally, in any future AOR's, I will reduce my utilization of all BT's to below 75% in
order to avoid negative actions similar to my dealings with Chase discussed above. While most of my utilization % were good, my one large Chase BT was not. While this issue was eventually resolved in my favor, I would rather not deal with any of this in the future.
As of 9/1, my profits from my first AOR are approximately
The money earned from the HSBC interest should continue to grow, as most of my BT’s have a ways to go before I need to pay them back. My large 48K Chase BT is set to expire soon, at which time I will pay it off, and do a new BT at an available .99% rate. The money intially used to make equity trades has gone back into a high yield savings account.
Thanks to steevyniu2004
As shown below, I broke my AOR into four main stages:
Preparation:
Here, I organized my pre-AOR cards in a way I thought to be most beneficial to the
actual AOR.
Implementation:
This is where I actually submitted the apps for all the new credit.
Maximization:
Here, I completed all my balance transfers in order to maximize my profits.
Finalization:
Here I discuss what I did with my AOR funds, the results, and my comments. While I
was happy with my first AOR, there were definitely things that I could have done
better (these are discussed in Stage 4).
Hopefully, someone will find this information interesting and/or useful.
Credit Profile before beginning my AOR (as of 12/1/2005): FICO scores: 763/744/730
CODE
Card Age Limit Balance
======================== === ===== =======
CapOne Platinum '02 11K 0
Chase Yahoo Visa '00 18.5K 0
Chase Sony Card '04 8.5K 0
Chase Platinum '03 11.5K 0
Chase Platinum '04 16K 6K*
Chase Amazon '03 9K 0
Citi AT&T Platinum '04 11.5K 0
Citi Diam. Pref. Rewards '04 1.5K 0
Discover Platinum Gas '96 10K 0
HSBC GM Platinum '03 11.5K 0
Totals 109K 6K
======================== === ===== =======
CapOne Platinum '02 11K 0
Chase Yahoo Visa '00 18.5K 0
Chase Sony Card '04 8.5K 0
Chase Platinum '03 11.5K 0
Chase Platinum '04 16K 6K*
Chase Amazon '03 9K 0
Citi AT&T Platinum '04 11.5K 0
Citi Diam. Pref. Rewards '04 1.5K 0
Discover Platinum Gas '96 10K 0
HSBC GM Platinum '03 11.5K 0
Totals 109K 6K
*0% until 12/06
Stage 1: Preparation - Restructuring my current cards for a more effective usage of an AOR
•I requested credit line increases on all cards without a hard pull on my credit report. If
not available, I did nothing in order to avoid a pre-AOR credit score hit.
•I had my lovely wife add me to her MBNA Chicago Bulls card with a 1992 history and $25k
limit in order to increase my credit history and size of average CL.
•I consolidated my Chase Sony card into the other three Chase cards so that I have a 20K+
limit on each of the 3 remaining cards, and thus, in my opinion, increased the possibility
of larger lines on new cards from my AOR. This move also decreased my overall # of Chase
cards in order to increase the possibility of approval for new cards with 0% promos from
the AOR. Despite the "never close a line" rule, I felt that the benefits, as stated above,
outweighed the costs of eliminating this card that was opened in 2004.
•I consolidated my AT&T Universal Platinum into my Citibank Diamond Preferred Rewards card
for a total new credit line of $13,500 in order to take advantage of a 0%, 12 month, no fee
BT to "refresh" my only current 0% balance on one of my Chase cards. Once again, I thought
the benefits outweighed the costs here. The card was only opened in 2004, so not a big hit
to my average age. Plus, I wanted to keep my utilization low with the $6,000 BT, thus the
transfer of the full credit line to the Diamond Preferred card. Finally, this lowered my
total Citi cards to just one, increasing my odds of multiple approvals for new Citi cards w
with 0%/no fee BT promos from my AOR.
Credit Profile after Stage 1 was completed:
CODE
Card Age Limit Balance
======================== === ===== =======
CapOne Platinum '02 11K 0
Chase Yahoo Visa '00 20K 0
Chase Platinum '03 20K 0
Chase Platinum '04 21K 0
Chase Amazon '03 14K 0
Citi Diam. Pref. Rew '04 13.5K 6K
Discover Platinum Gas '96 12.5K 0
HSBC GM Platinum '03 11.5K 0
MBNA Chicago Bulls '94 25K 0
Totals 148.5K 6K
======================== === ===== =======
CapOne Platinum '02 11K 0
Chase Yahoo Visa '00 20K 0
Chase Platinum '03 20K 0
Chase Platinum '04 21K 0
Chase Amazon '03 14K 0
Citi Diam. Pref. Rew '04 13.5K 6K
Discover Platinum Gas '96 12.5K 0
HSBC GM Platinum '03 11.5K 0
MBNA Chicago Bulls '94 25K 0
Totals 148.5K 6K
*0% until 12/06
Stage 1 Results:
•I increased my overall credit by $39,500 without any hits to my credit score via hard
pulls. Individual card average increased from $10,900 to $16,500.
•I went from zero to four credit lines of $20,000 or more. I theorize that this will help me
get larger lines during the actual AOR
•I decreased my Chase cards to 3 and my Citi cards to 1 in order to open more "spots" for
new cards from these issuers during the actual AOR
•I extended my current 0% deal for another 12 months without any fees.
•I helped to increase my overall credit history by adding my wife's 1994 MBNA card.
•I indirectly lowered my overall average age by consolidating two cards obtained in 2004. I
realize that this will have a negative impact when I open all the new AOR accounts in 2006.
I felt that the additional benefits, as previously stated, outweighed this.
Stage 2: Implementation
FICO scores as of 2/1/2006: 744/746/757
I performed the AOR on a weekday morning, started early, and submitted all applications online to increase efficiency.
CODE
Length
Card of 0% BT Limit Comment
============================= ======== ===== =======
Advanta Plat. Business 0 12.5K Bonus via cardoffers
AMEX Delta Skymiles 0 4.3K 17.5K bonus miles
AMEX Blue 0 20K Bonus via cardoffers
AMEX Gold Rewards Plus 0 N/A 50K points bonus
AMEX Platinum 0 N/A 100K points bonus
BofA Choice Privileges Visa 0 8K 3 free nights at Choice Hotels
BofA Platinum Visa 12 1.5K
CapOne Business Platinum 12 20K
Chase Marriott Rewards 0 17K Free night, 15K bonus points
Citi Platinum Select 15 12.9k
Citi Professional Rewards 12 10.6K 10K bonus points
Commerce Bank Visa 12 18K
eTrade Platinum Visa 12 20K 2K bonus points
HSBC GM Flex Earnings 0 2.5k Bonus via cardoffers
MBNA Jets 0 10K Free iPod Nano
Discover Platinum 12 10K Bonus via cardoffers
RBS Platinum 12 15K
WaMu Platinum 12 30K Free TU credit scores
Totals 214.7K
Card of 0% BT Limit Comment
============================= ======== ===== =======
Advanta Plat. Business 0 12.5K Bonus via cardoffers
AMEX Delta Skymiles 0 4.3K 17.5K bonus miles
AMEX Blue 0 20K Bonus via cardoffers
AMEX Gold Rewards Plus 0 N/A 50K points bonus
AMEX Platinum 0 N/A 100K points bonus
BofA Choice Privileges Visa 0 8K 3 free nights at Choice Hotels
BofA Platinum Visa 12 1.5K
CapOne Business Platinum 12 20K
Chase Marriott Rewards 0 17K Free night, 15K bonus points
Citi Platinum Select 15 12.9k
Citi Professional Rewards 12 10.6K 10K bonus points
Commerce Bank Visa 12 18K
eTrade Platinum Visa 12 20K 2K bonus points
HSBC GM Flex Earnings 0 2.5k Bonus via cardoffers
MBNA Jets 0 10K Free iPod Nano
Discover Platinum 12 10K Bonus via cardoffers
RBS Platinum 12 15K
WaMu Platinum 12 30K Free TU credit scores
Totals 214.7K
Credit Profile after Stage 2 was completed: FICO score as of 4/10/2006: 747(Transunion)
CODE
Card Age Limit Balance 0% APR
========================== === ===== ======= =============
Advanta Platinum Business '06 12.5K 0
AMEX Delta SkyMiles '06 4.3K 0
AMEX Blue '06 20K 0
AMEX Gold Rewards Plus '06 0
AMEX Platinum '06 0
BofA Choice Privileges '06 3K 0
BofA Platinum '06 11.9K 0 0% for 12
CapOne Plat. Business '06 20K 0 0% for 12
CapOne Platinum '02 11K 0
Chase Platinum '02 11K 0
Chase Yahoo '00 20K 0
Chase Platinum '04 20K 0
Chase Marriott Rewards '06 17K 0
Chase Amazon '03 14K 0
Citi Diamond Preferred '04 13.5K 6K 0% thru 12/06
Citi Platinum Select '06 12.9K 0 0% for 15
Citi Professional Rewards '06 10.6K 0 0% for 12
Commerce Bank Visa '06 18K 0 0% for 12
Discover Platinum Gas '96 12.5K 0
Discover Platinum '06 10K 0 0% for 12
eTrade Platinum '06 20K 0 0% for 12
HSBC GM Platinum '03 11.5K 0
HSBC GM FlexEarnings '06 2.5K 0
MBNA Chicago Bulls '94 25K 0
MBNA Jets '06 10K 0
RBS Platinum '06 15K 0 0% thru 3/07
WaMu Platinum '06 30K 0 0% for 12
Totals 363.2K
========================== === ===== ======= =============
Advanta Platinum Business '06 12.5K 0
AMEX Delta SkyMiles '06 4.3K 0
AMEX Blue '06 20K 0
AMEX Gold Rewards Plus '06 0
AMEX Platinum '06 0
BofA Choice Privileges '06 3K 0
BofA Platinum '06 11.9K 0 0% for 12
CapOne Plat. Business '06 20K 0 0% for 12
CapOne Platinum '02 11K 0
Chase Platinum '02 11K 0
Chase Yahoo '00 20K 0
Chase Platinum '04 20K 0
Chase Marriott Rewards '06 17K 0
Chase Amazon '03 14K 0
Citi Diamond Preferred '04 13.5K 6K 0% thru 12/06
Citi Platinum Select '06 12.9K 0 0% for 15
Citi Professional Rewards '06 10.6K 0 0% for 12
Commerce Bank Visa '06 18K 0 0% for 12
Discover Platinum Gas '96 12.5K 0
Discover Platinum '06 10K 0 0% for 12
eTrade Platinum '06 20K 0 0% for 12
HSBC GM Platinum '03 11.5K 0
HSBC GM FlexEarnings '06 2.5K 0
MBNA Chicago Bulls '94 25K 0
MBNA Jets '06 10K 0
RBS Platinum '06 15K 0 0% thru 3/07
WaMu Platinum '06 30K 0 0% for 12
Totals 363.2K
Stage 2 Results:
•All cards applied for were approved
•I more than tripled my total available credit when compared to pre-Stage 1 results
•Created more than $160,000 in 0% balance transfer opportunities
•Earned $275.00 in cash rebates by applying through cardoffers.com (received check on 6/6/06)
•Earned a net $1,200.00 in Home Depot gift cards through card point bonuses (AMEX Platinum,
Gold Rewards Plus, and Citibank Professional Rewards). These gift cards were sold on eBay
when received.
•Earned various other hotel, airfare, Ipod rewards/credits
Stage 3: BT Maximization
CODE
Card Limit Balance 0% APR How
========================== ===== ======= ============= ==========
Commerce Bank Visa 18K 15K 0% for 12 via BT check
WaMu Platinum 30K 25K 0% for 12 via BT check
eTrade Platinum 20K 15K 0% for 12 via BT to Citi card
Discover Platinum 10K 7.5K 0% for 12 via BT check
CapOne Business Plat 20K 15K 0% thru 3/07 via BT to Citi card
BofA Platinum 11.9K 10K 0% for 12 via BT to Citi card
Chase Platinum 55K 48K 0% thru 11/06 via BT check
Citi Platinum Select 12.9K 10K 0% for 15 via BT check
Citi Professional 10.6K 8k 0% for 12 via BT check
RBS Platinum 15K 11.5K 0% thru 3/07 via BT check
Totals 211.4K 171K
========================== ===== ======= ============= ==========
Commerce Bank Visa 18K 15K 0% for 12 via BT check
WaMu Platinum 30K 25K 0% for 12 via BT check
eTrade Platinum 20K 15K 0% for 12 via BT to Citi card
Discover Platinum 10K 7.5K 0% for 12 via BT check
CapOne Business Plat 20K 15K 0% thru 3/07 via BT to Citi card
BofA Platinum 11.9K 10K 0% for 12 via BT to Citi card
Chase Platinum 55K 48K 0% thru 11/06 via BT check
Citi Platinum Select 12.9K 10K 0% for 15 via BT check
Citi Professional 10.6K 8k 0% for 12 via BT check
RBS Platinum 15K 11.5K 0% thru 3/07 via BT check
Totals 211.4K 171K
•I reallocated 20,000 from my Chase Platinum Visa and 15,000 from my Chase Yahoo Visa to my
second Chase Platinum Visa for a total credit line of $55,000 in order to maximize a 0% BT
opportunity on that card.
•I consolidated BofA Choice Priveleges card into BofA Platinum Visa in order to maximize BT
offer for a total credit line of 11,900 and then reapplied for the Choice Priveleges card
for a $3K CL in order to get 3 more free nights.
•I also reallocated 8,000 from Citibank Dividend Rewards to Citibank Platinum Select in
order to take further advantage of 0% BT rate
•I had other BT offers, but only used those that had a BT fee that was not profit
prohibitive (usually $50 or less). I also requested 15K BT on applications if the option was available and I was sure of the 0% rate.
Ending credit profile as of 7/1/06
CODE
Card Age Limit Balance 0% APR
========================== === ===== ======= =============
Advanta Platinum Bus '06 12.5K 0
AMEX Delta SkyMiles '06 4.3K 0
AMEX Blue '06 20K 0
AMEX Gold Rewards Plus '06 0
AMEX Platinum '06 0
BofA Platinum '06 11.9K 10K 0% for 12
CapOne Business Plat '06 20K 15K 0% for 12
CapOne Platinum '02 11K 0
Chase Platinum '03 1.5K 0
Chase Yahoo '00 5K 0
Chase Platinum '04 55K 48K 0% till 11/06
Chase Marriott '06 17K 0
Chase Amazon '03 14K 0
Citi Diamond Prefer '04 5K 0
Citi Platinum Select '06 20.9K 16K 0% for 15
Citi Professional '06 10.6K 8K 0% for 12
Commerce Bank Visa '06 18K 15K 0% for 12
Discover Platinum Gas '96 12.5K 0
Discover Platinum '06 10K 7.5K 0% for 12
eTrade Platinum '06 20K 15K 0% for 12
HSBC GM Platinum '03 11.5K 0
HSBC GM FlexEarnings '06 2.5K 0
MBNA Chicago Bulls '94 25K 0
MBNA Jets Card '06 10K 0
RBS Platinum '06 15K 11.5K 0% till 3/07
WaMu Platinum '06 30K 25K 0% for 12
Totals 363.2K 171K
========================== === ===== ======= =============
Advanta Platinum Bus '06 12.5K 0
AMEX Delta SkyMiles '06 4.3K 0
AMEX Blue '06 20K 0
AMEX Gold Rewards Plus '06 0
AMEX Platinum '06 0
BofA Platinum '06 11.9K 10K 0% for 12
CapOne Business Plat '06 20K 15K 0% for 12
CapOne Platinum '02 11K 0
Chase Platinum '03 1.5K 0
Chase Yahoo '00 5K 0
Chase Platinum '04 55K 48K 0% till 11/06
Chase Marriott '06 17K 0
Chase Amazon '03 14K 0
Citi Diamond Prefer '04 5K 0
Citi Platinum Select '06 20.9K 16K 0% for 15
Citi Professional '06 10.6K 8K 0% for 12
Commerce Bank Visa '06 18K 15K 0% for 12
Discover Platinum Gas '96 12.5K 0
Discover Platinum '06 10K 7.5K 0% for 12
eTrade Platinum '06 20K 15K 0% for 12
HSBC GM Platinum '03 11.5K 0
HSBC GM FlexEarnings '06 2.5K 0
MBNA Chicago Bulls '94 25K 0
MBNA Jets Card '06 10K 0
RBS Platinum '06 15K 11.5K 0% till 3/07
WaMu Platinum '06 30K 25K 0% for 12
Totals 363.2K 171K
Recent Credit Scores since finishing the AOR:
•Transunion FICO Credit score as of 6/10/06: 683
•Transunion FICO Credit score as of 7/10/06: 622
•Transunion FICO Credit score as of 8/10/06: 642
8/17/06:
Received letters from Chase stating that they were closing 5 of my 6 credit card accounts due to "balances too high compared to credit limit, number of accts currently in use, and balance owed on revolving accts too high". The only account left open was my Platinum account where I had a $48K 0% BT. All the other cards had a zero balance. I called Chase in order to get the cards reopened. After providing them with proof of enough liquid assets to cover my liabilities, they agreed to reopen all the cards.
Stage 4: Finalization
•approximately $100K of my 170K balance transfer money went into my HSBC savings account
currently at 5% interest.
•Approximately $50K of my 170K balance transfer money went into my eTrade brokerage account.
I used this money to trade mutual funds and individual stocks. To date, I have made 6 stock
trades, netting approx. $4,000.00. I also have an unrealized gain of $1,200 on a mutual
fund that I purchased using the BT money.
•Approximately $20K of my 170L balance transfer money went into another savings account that
I have more direct access to than HSBC. This is to ensure that I have access to some cash
in case my one of my balances become unexpectedly called due to a missed payment, etc.
•While I have earned an excellent return by trading stocks on the BT money, I would not
recommend it to inexperienced investors, nor will I do it again myself. In general, I
consider myself an intermediate trader that usually utilizes trends and statistics, as opposed to
emotions and speculation, and only trade in a handful of stocks that I have been tracking
for the past few years. While my net result was a gain of approx. $4K, I did get nailed on
two trades for losses one of which was a purely speculative trade where I luckily did not
lose much more. I believe that the stress of trading with "other people's money" is not
worth the gain that I have achieved to date in this area. If I perform any additional AOR's
in the future, I plan to park all of the money in more conservative investments such as high yield
savings accounts.
•In addition, if I do another AOR, I would plan my card selections much more carefully.
While my results were good, I feel that I missed out on some rewards and BT opportunities
that I would have found if I had planned better.
•Finally, in any future AOR's, I will reduce my utilization of all BT's to below 75% in
order to avoid negative actions similar to my dealings with Chase discussed above. While most of my utilization % were good, my one large Chase BT was not. While this issue was eventually resolved in my favor, I would rather not deal with any of this in the future.
As of 9/1, my profits from my first AOR are approximately
CODE
$4,000 from stock trading
$1,500 HSBC savings account interest
$1,200 from unrealized mutual fund gain
$1,200 from free gift card sales
$ 500 other savings account interest
$ 275 from cardoffers bonus
$ 100 from free iPod sale
====== ================================
$8,775 Total
$1,500 HSBC savings account interest
$1,200 from unrealized mutual fund gain
$1,200 from free gift card sales
$ 500 other savings account interest
$ 275 from cardoffers bonus
$ 100 from free iPod sale
====== ================================
$8,775 Total
The money earned from the HSBC interest should continue to grow, as most of my BT’s have a ways to go before I need to pay them back. My large 48K Chase BT is set to expire soon, at which time I will pay it off, and do a new BT at an available .99% rate. The money intially used to make equity trades has gone back into a high yield savings account.
Thanks to steevyniu2004
bookmarked, Thanks!
Sheee....
I've wanted to do that for a while, but I haven't had the nerve. (Nor do I have the income required to qualify for such high balances)
What'd you do, call and ask them if they do a hard pull?
A third of a million in credit....yeesh!
I've wanted to do that for a while, but I haven't had the nerve. (Nor do I have the income required to qualify for such high balances)
QUOTE(mydeal @ 9-19-06, 12:20pm) 
•I requested credit line increases on all cards without a hard pull on my credit report. If
not available, I did nothing in order to avoid a pre-AOR credit score hit.
not available, I did nothing in order to avoid a pre-AOR credit score hit.
What'd you do, call and ask them if they do a hard pull?
A third of a million in credit....yeesh!
Yes. Just call and see if they can increase your credit limit without doing a hard pull. They will tell you if they can't increase without a hard pull. At that point you can just say, no thanks... but be sure that you are clear with them that you only want an increase if they can do it without a hard pull.
I'd be willing to do hard pulls if they all come on the same day. They likely would if you do the limit increases in one dya, as they usually pull for those live on the phone.
If you are going to do hard pulls, they affect your score less if they come through on the same day. hence the AOR strategy of applying to as many palces in ONE day as possible.
Yes, hard pulls are worse than those without, but if your AOR is months away, your score will recover by that time, and the hard pulls will have been worth it due to the increased limits.
Cost-benefit. If the AOR is closer, it may not be worth it, but IMHO, I'd rather push off the AOR a bit and get the limits up. There may be lesser intro gifts, but it's really the 0% APR/BT you're looking for...
If you are going to do hard pulls, they affect your score less if they come through on the same day. hence the AOR strategy of applying to as many palces in ONE day as possible.
Yes, hard pulls are worse than those without, but if your AOR is months away, your score will recover by that time, and the hard pulls will have been worth it due to the increased limits.
Cost-benefit. If the AOR is closer, it may not be worth it, but IMHO, I'd rather push off the AOR a bit and get the limits up. There may be lesser intro gifts, but it's really the 0% APR/BT you're looking for...
They seem to have caught on....VISA and Discover both refused to let me transfer to a debit card.
Thats too bad, this sounds NUTZZZZZZzzzz. I wouldn't go as far as to throw the extra money on the stock market even though it has been bullish for months now. But man 8000 dollars is a chunk of change for me.
Gutsy MyDeal. I have done this kind of deal with very small amounts, playing with approx 25k BTs. Few things to note:
1. You will have to pay taxes on all the earnings.
2. Monthly Cash flow. With 170 K in balances and most min payments being 1% - 2% of balances, you are looking at $1700 - $3400 min payments per month. Thats almost $30k in a year that you will be paying back. You will be earning interest on approx $155k only on average.
3. Stock trading on credit is extremely ill-advised. Almost half of your gain ($5200) is from stock trading.
4. Not sure how long before your credit score will come back up. This is a once in 2-3 yrs deal.
5. You will have to remember to make 10 additional monthly payments on top of your regular payments. A person has to be really disciplined for this game.
Other than that -yay-
1. You will have to pay taxes on all the earnings.
2. Monthly Cash flow. With 170 K in balances and most min payments being 1% - 2% of balances, you are looking at $1700 - $3400 min payments per month. Thats almost $30k in a year that you will be paying back. You will be earning interest on approx $155k only on average.
3. Stock trading on credit is extremely ill-advised. Almost half of your gain ($5200) is from stock trading.
4. Not sure how long before your credit score will come back up. This is a once in 2-3 yrs deal.
5. You will have to remember to make 10 additional monthly payments on top of your regular payments. A person has to be really disciplined for this game.
Other than that -yay-
QUOTE(alphynewman @ 1-20-07, 2:56pm)
5. You will have to remember to make 10 additional monthly payments on top of your regular payments. A person has to be really disciplined for this game.
Other than that -yay-
Other than that -yay-
True, but if you have a good online billpayer, you can set the whole thing up in one shot, so that everything is automated. You don't really need to "remember" anything this way, and the end result is the same. It is a PITA to set up (take probably 15-20 minutes), but once it is done, you are done, and all that is left to do is pay taxes on the earnings at the end.
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