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scaryjerry
I havent bought any individual company shares since '01, and never particiapted in an IPO.... but am really considering doing it again...

QUOTE
Google stock auction: IPO revolution or disaster?

SAN FRANCISCO, California (AP) -- Google Inc.'s initial public offering has a lot of people salivating for a piece of the action -- an appetite that the Internet search engine leader hopes to satisfy by inviting the masses to the bidding table.

While an egalitarian auction may sound like a refreshing change after years of shady brokerage dealings, the approach could backfire if Google can't meet the intense demand or the bidding pushes the IPO price so high that the shares are perched to topple once they begin trading.

For now, most IPO and technology observers are applauding Google for being bold enough to challenge the status quo with an unorthodox system that could empower individual investors.

"Google has managed to crack the code for searching online, so maybe they can crack the code for getting the individual investor more involved in the IPO market," said Kathleen Smith, an analyst for Renaissance Capital in Greenwich, Connecticut.

The hype surrounding Google's IPO, coupled with the mass appeal the company has built through its popular search engine, is piquing the interest of people who don't normally buy stocks.

"I'm no expert, but this is something I would definitely consider," said Brian Gottlock, a 29-year-old New York lawyer who hasn't bought stock since he invested in Marvel Comics as a teenager. "This just seems like a really democratic idea. It feels less impersonal than when most other companies go public."

To be sure, Google's IPO isn't about altruism. The company wants to raise at least $2.7 billion.

By using a public auction, Google stands a better chance of getting the highest price possible for its stock by appealing to the millions of people who use -- even revere -- its search engine.
Potential outbreak of buyer's remorse

To participate in the auction, prospective bidders must open an account with one of Google's IPO bankers, Morgan Stanley or Credit Suisse First Boston.

Before the auction starts -- in late summer at the earliest -- Google will set an estimated price range for the IPO shares. The range is supposed to serve as a guide for investors, but the auction participants are free to submit higher or lower bids. The auction will be held through phone, fax and the Internet.

Google says it wants the auction to determine the price of its initial shares. Some will be distributed by Morgan Stanley and CSFB, but the majority are supposed to go to members of the public who bid at or above the price.

One of the biggest downsides to this system is a potential outbreak of buyer's remorse.

Because the auction is set up to determine the price most people are willing to pay for the stock, that theoretically means few people would buy the shares at a higher price in the first few days or weeks after they begin trading.

The scenario could cause IPO bidders to worry they overpaid for Google's stock and prompt a wave of selling that drives down the price, a phenomenon known as "the winner's curse."

Google repeatedly advises potential investors about the curse in its prospectus. It also says that if the IPO flops, its business could suffer a black eye.

"Our brand could be tarnished, and users and investors could become frustrated with us, potentially decreasing their use of our products and services," the company warns in the prospectus.

Among the handful of companies that have offered stock through the auction system, none has had Google's pedigree. Besides its wide recognition, Google is highly profitable -- earning $106 million on revenue of $982 million last year.
Scent of scandal over IPO market

An IPO auction "is something Wall Street hates to see, but no one can afford to walk away from Google," said Patrick Byrne, CEO of Overstock.com Inc., which used an auction in its 2002 IPO. "This could be the thing that breaks a sleazy Wall Street system."

Overstock's IPO auction rewarded its participants, although it took some time. The company's shares rose just 45 cents during their first year of trading, but the stock recently has hovered around $39 -- tripling its IPO price of $13.

Other IPO auctions haven't worked so well. Online publisher Salon Media Group Inc. went public at $10.50 per share in 1999. The perennially unprofitable company's shares crept as high as $15.15 during their first year on the market, but recently have traded for less than 15 cents.

An immediate price decline in a hot IPO like Google's would be a dramatic reversal from the frothy days of the 1990s dot-com boom.

Back then, investment bankers treated IPOs as a prize worthy of a favored few -- major institutional investors and insiders at companies that could become lucrative customers.

The IPOs of that manic era almost uniformly rocketed when the shares began trading, opening a window for the privileged investors to sell their stock at a quick and healthy profit.

The pattern raised suspicions that investment bankers purposefully underpriced IPOs to assure the initial investors would enjoy hefty gains. Securities regulators also uncovered evidence that IPO investors paid kickbacks to the investment banks, resulting in a series of fines and settlements.

The scent of scandal continues to hang over the IPO market, despite Google's attempt to introduce some fresh air.

"I'm not planning on getting in on (Google's IPO) because I don't trust Wall Street," said Farshad Foroudi, 27, of West New York, New Jersey. "I'm not sure how it will all work out, but I am pretty confident Wall Street will find a way to work it to its advantage."link
NARC
If for some miracle I could get some of this near the IPO price, I would absolutley jump on it.

If for nothing else then to just hold if for 3 days for the good ole pump and dump. Still proably make 2x-3x for it.
scaryjerry
does anyone (msh11) have an experience with IPO's? it seems like this one is going to be a bit more complicated and you will need to go through a brokerage (MS or CSFB), will they limit it to their "prefered customers"?
tolik
Google price, with the auction format, will be about $15 a share, putting a $20b valuation on the company.

in addition, with the $2.7B rollout and the promise of founders not to dump to much stock, you will effectively have NO control of the company.

Msft and Yhoo are currently spending billions combined to develop their own servers, and the ad market is extremely fizzy... I highly doubt this is a good investment.
NARC
QUOTE(tolik @ 05-11-2004 - 03:37 PM)
I highly doubt this is a good investment.

Agreed, but there will be many people who do.

Thus: buy early, let it run up, and dump. No good reason to hang onto it.
scaryjerry
QUOTE(NARC @ 05-11-2004 - 02:47 PM)
buy early, let it run up, and dump.

my intentions wink.gif i am sure that during he first week or 2 it will be over valued and can turn a quick profit...
qwex
QUOTE(scaryjerry @ 05-11-2004 - 01:55 PM)
does anyone (msh11) have an experience with IPO's? it seems like this one is going to be a bit more complicated and you will need to go through a brokerage (MS or CSFB), will they limit it to their "prefered customers"?

considering one of the main goals of the open ipo process is to allow small time investors to get access, it shouldn't be too hard to get accounts, I think you basically need to show that you have money to invest, maybe that you have some experience - basically that you're not clueless about investing. of course getting an account does not equal getting shares...

if anyone's interesting in how the process works, this demo should explain it.
qwex
QUOTE(scaryjerry @ 05-11-2004 - 03:00 PM)
my intentions wink.gif i am sure that during he first week or 2 it will be over valued and can turn a quick profit...

yep, that's sadly pretty much what's going to happen. I wouldn't go as far as saying Google is a bad investment - given how secretive they are, you never really know what they're up to. never underestimate a bunch of very intelligent nerds. given what we do know, however, I tihnk a $25 billion valuation is unrealistic, and given the fact that your average investor would buy in based solely on name recognition (as opposed to, say, legitimate analysis of the company) the stock will likely shoot up, then tank.

though while I believe all the above, I do have to admit if I could get some shares, I'd buy and sell too. I made a good deal of money a few years ago trading dotcom stocks, with little investing knowledge. too bad it was all fake money.
tolik
QUOTE(scaryjerry @ 05-11-2004 - 12:00 PM)
my intentions wink.gif i am sure that during he first week or 2 it will be over valued and can turn a quick profit...

well, good luck, the point is, if you've read Brin's and Page's assessment's, they're doing their best to not allow this to happen, seems they actually want the price to drop btwn weeks 0-2 sad.gif
scaryjerry
QUOTE(qwex @ 05-11-2004 - 03:23 PM)
if anyone's interesting in how the process works, this demo should explain it.

thanks very informative thumbup.gif
mistikal
QUOTE(scaryjerry @ 05-11-2004 - 10:55 AM)
does anyone (msh11) have an experience with IPO's? it seems like this one is going to be a bit more complicated and you will need to go through a brokerage (MS or CSFB), will they limit it to their "prefered customers"?

I work at Morgan Stanley and between all branches, there is an index. Based on that index number, shares are allotted accordingly (let's say for company XYZ). Another index exists amongst the financial advisors based upon previous participation in Initial and Secondary offerings for other companies. At my branch, the highest index a financial advisor Q is .39 while the lowest (several brokers) are between .01 and .025 (My index is .01 since I'm the new guy). So out of 10,000 shares of XYZ distributed to our branch, financial advisor Q receives 3900 shares. Each broker have between 10 to 30 clients.

It's true that "preferred customers" gets first dibs when it comes to IPOs. I have a client T that I have spoken to twice and others that I speak to on a daily basis as they take on a very active role into managing and diversifying their own investments. This client T calls me up and says, "I want in on the Google IPO". Will I give it to him? Probably not, for the reason that I am limited to the amount of shares and that there are other clients out there that I feel deserve it more. Of course this is to my own discretion.

Good luck to all.
dejavu
A lot of good luck is what you need with an IPO!
IMHO they are very risky.

We got burned with the AWE (AT&T Wireless) IPO. Maybe Google will be different?? I'm not taking any chances. no.gif
Tozmo
insiders and employees get the best deal. the rest of us get backwater prices which aren't really worth it, IMO
dejavu
QUOTE(Tozmo @ 05-23-2004 - 07:29 PM)
insiders and employees get the best deal. the rest of us get backwater prices which aren't really worth it, IMO

we were *employees* and lost big time...just beware!!! bang.gif
doctor_ido
What about a short-sell on Google at about week 1.5?

My .02. If price is allowed to directly reflect investors demand for the IPO, I predict that Google will be 3x estimated price before or shortly after going public. It will be like ebay for stocks. If demand is as high as it appears, you might be able to double dip on purchasing. Buy before IPO and then ebay your shares during week 1.
msh11
A pretty good site for gathered Google IPO news and related articles.

http://www.watchinggooglelikeahawk.com/

The lawsuits against Google could affect the price.

Googles S-1 filing:

http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/128...4059/dex991.htm
ivanchu02
Google is funny,
waffles = kerry
RobG
I got burned on BNBN.Com Barnes and noble dot com IPO thought I could do something with it and got burned bad bang.gif
scaryjerry
QUOTE(RobG @ 05-28-2004 - 05:44 PM)
I got burned on BNBN.Com Barnes and noble dot com IPO thought I could do something with it and got burned bad bang.gif

i got burned on BNBN too tongue.gif
tonka
If you can buy in i would set a sell price that you feel would be a good return
and even if it hits that in 1 hour get out.
it will lvl and drop.very fast
after all its a .com
dont let greed drive you.
well at least not all the time
msh11
Get your life savings ready for the IPO tongue.gif ...

QUOTE
Google Hopes to Raise $2 Billion in IPO 

Monday, July 26, 2004 9:30 a.m. ET

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Google Inc., the world's No. 1 Web search provider, said on Monday it hoped to raise as much as $2 billion in its highly anticipated initial public offering and could have an initial market cap as high as $36.25 billion.

About 24.6 million shares will be sold in the IPO for between $108 and $135, according to an amended prospectus filed with the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission.

Mountain View, California-based Google plans to sell 14.1 million shares, while another 10.5 million will be sold by stockholders. It has received approval to list its Class A common stock on the Nasdaq under the symbol "GOOG" <GOOG.O>.

The company plans to use the net proceeds from the sale, estimated to be $1.66 billion, for general corporate purposes. It will not receive any of the proceeds from shares sold by selling stockholders.

Additionally, Google reported second-quarter earnings of $79.1 million on revenue of $700.2 million, up from earnings of $64 million on revenue of $651.6 million in the 2004 first quarter, according to the prospectus.

Operating income for the second quarter was $171 million, up from $155.3 million in the first quarter, according to the filing.

A group of underwriters, led by Morgan Stanley <MWD.N> and Credit Suisse First Boston, will have the option to buy another 3.7 million Class A common shares under the IPO.
qwex
$108 a share? isn't that kind of atypical for an IPO? at the same time, I doubt they want to sell 240 million shares, but that's kind of high.
romanntiko
QUOTE(qwex @ 07-26-2004 - 06:00 AM)
$108 a share? isn't that kind of atypical for an IPO? at the same time, I doubt they want to sell 240 million shares, but that's kind of high.
*


Dam! I was hoping to jump in on this, that's too high for me.
sushiosushi
a few tidbits from another article:
http://biz.yahoo.com/rb/040726/tech_google_ipo_9.html

"At the projected pricing, Google would rank as the eighth-largest IPO by a U.S. company, according to Thomson Financial. It would also be the highest-priced offering on a per-share basis since Genentech's July 1999 IPO."

"Of the thousands of U.S. public companies in the United States, barely more than a dozen have prices above $100 per share and trade at least 10,000 shares a day. As of mid-afternoon Monday, none of the Nasdaq-100 stocks (NasdaqSC:^NDX - News) or the components of the Morgan Stanley High Tech Index (AMEX:^MSH - News) traded over $90 a share."

"At $135 per share, Google would have a valuation, on a ratio of its price to 2003 earnings, of 329, more than twice that of its closest competitor, Yahoo Inc. (NasdaqNM:YHOO - News). The S&P 500 had a 2003 price-to-earnings ratio, in comparison, of more than 20."
msh11
Google Inc. May Accept IPO Bids as Early as Friday (Update2)
Aug. 10 (Bloomberg) -- Google Inc., the world's most-used Internet search engine, may begin accepting bids for its stock as early as Friday after investors register to buy shares in the $3.3 billion initial public offering.

Google said the bidder registration process will close on Thursday at 5 p.m. New York time, according to a statement on its IPO Web site. ``The auction will commence soon thereafter,'' the Mountain View, California-based company said. Google spokesman David Krane declined comment in a telephone interview.

Google is selling 24.6 million shares and anticipates the stock being sold at $108 to $135, according to a Securities and Exchange Commission filing. The company may fetch a price for its stock higher than any U.S. IPO since at least 1999 in the biggest test of an Internet-based auction of shares.

``I think that many companies are evaluating this auction and will watch its success or failure with great interest,'' said Paul Phillips, the head of technology investment banking at Banc of America Securities LLC in San Francisco. ``The auction method as employed by Google is for companies with a very, very high brand recognition.''

Investors who want to buy Google stock must have a brokerage account with one of the 28 securities firms underwriting the sale. To participate in the auction process, they must request a bidder identification at http://www.ipo.google.com , the Web site set up for the sale.

Once investors have their identification number, they will be able to place bids at a share price above, below or within the price range Google has specified.


Auction Process

Google can decide against accepting bids it deems manipulative or disruptive, according to the company filing. Investors who submit more than one bid are responsible for paying for all bids that are successful.

E*Trade Financial Corp., the third-biggest online broker and a Google underwriter, will funnel all orders for Google shares to a Manhattan office, said Michael Klena, director of relationship management at E*Trade. After the orders come in, E*Trade will submit its final order book to underwriters Credit Suisse First Boston and Morgan Stanley.

The underwriters will come back and set the final clearing price, Klena said. The order book for the Google IPO will then be considered filled and all the shares accounted for, he said.

E*Trade set up an electronic based system of taking orders and distributing shares in 1999. The company has participated in the $26.4 million IPO in January 2001 of Peet's Coffee and Tea Inc. and $27.3 million IPO of Internet magazine Salon Media Group Inc. in June 1999.

`Full Knowledge'

``The auction system gets rid of the idea of a discounted IPO because the investment banks have full knowledge of what people are willing to order and at what price,'' Klena said in an interview last month. ``It takes an hour or so to set the clearing price. The clearing price really jumps out at you.''

Google's IPO is largely based on the initial share sale model of WR Hambrecht + Co., the San Francisco-based investment bank founded by William Hambrecht in 1998.

Hambrecht pioneered a process similar to a Dutch auction that allows investors to place bids specifying the price at which they are willing to buy or sell a stock.

William Hambrecht, whose firm is among the Google underwriters, declined to comment through spokeswoman Sharon Smith.

For some underwriters the Google IPO will be a one-time event. Needham & Co., the New York-based investment bank founded in 1985 by former First Boston Corp. managing director George Needham, may not use the systems created for the Google IPO a second time.

Needham

``We have no plans to be involved again in the auction process,'' said Warren Foss, a managing director and head of institutional sales at Needham, in a June interview. He declined to comment further.

Google maintains the largest online index of Web sites. The company makes money by selling Internet-based advertising that users can click on after searching for the Web site they are seeking.

Google's revenue in the six months to June 30 was $1.35 billion and net income was $143 million compared with revenue of $559.8 million and net income of $58 million in same period a year ago.

Google said yesterday it issued $290 million in stock to Yahoo! Inc. to settle a pair of legal disputes. The payout will cause Google to take a third-quarter loss.

Yahoo will receive 2.7 million Google shares, the company said in a statement. Google will record a non-cash charge of $260 million to $290 million for the settlement, it said.



To contact the reporter on this story:
Brett Cole at coleb@bloomberg.net.

To contact the editor responsible for this story:
Greg Baumann at gbaumann@bloomberg.net.
Last Updated: August 10, 2004 10:46 EDT
scaryjerry
after all the "issues" google has had with the IPO recently, I have dismissed any thought of buying chick.gif
tonka
if you are approved you can buy as little as 5 shares.
think the max is 5k
also a chance it will not go on sale friday
and why pick friday the 13th anyway.. blushing.gif
info
qwex
http://biz.yahoo.com/special/googleipo2.html

auction is now open. pricing may occur next week. should be interesting smile.gif
msh11
I'm using Fidelity to bid.

blue.gif
msh11
3:26pm 08/16/04
Google says IPO to trade as early as Wed. (GOOG) By August Cole
SAN FRANCISCO (CBS.MW) -- Google (GOOG) on Monday said that it has asked the Securities and Exchange Commission to declare its IPO effective on Aug. 17 at 4 p.m. Eastern, which could see the search company's shares trading the next day. Those who have bid on the company's stock will be notified by the company, according to an e-mail udpate. Bids may be accepted "in as little as one hour after the notice of the effectiveness of the registration is sent to you," according to the company.
qwex
I want to see very moderate growth in GOOG, but I'm starting to feel that some lucky people are going to make a lot of money over the next week...maybe I just wish I had some shares myself tongue.gif

anyone here bid?
msh11
I keep getting to the screen to enter my offer in Fidelity and I leave it sit...and wait...then change my mind. It seems I'm not alone either. There are reports of most people waiting it out or bidding last minute.

I will probably end up not buying during the initial auction (although IPO's are commission free)...but get in when it opens at it's determined price.

...decisions decisions
qwex
I guess I'm just too risk averse to buy into this myself (not that I had the money, but if I did, I probably wouldn't be so risk averse tongue.gif)

the hype seems to have calmed down a bit though, and given the high price I think a lot of small investors have lost interest...not that this guarantees any stability, but I wouldn't be surprised if it moves only 10 - 20% the first day. of course, that's a pretty nice profit. they should require IPO buyers to hold for at least 30 days or something. I do have to admit that I want to see google succeed, long term.

I'm more interested in seeing what happens afterwards, then maybe I'll make a move. until then I'll be watching this page: http://finance.yahoo.com/q?s=goog
smile.gif
msh11
I'm glad I didn't pull the trigger tongue.gif

QUOTE
Please be advised that the prospectus for the offering of Google's Class
A common stock will be amended to change the estimated offering price
range and the number of shares to be sold in the offering.  The offering
price is now expected to be between $85 and $95 per share.  Google
expects to sell 14,142,135 shares of Class A common stock in the
offering as originally filed.  The selling shareholders are reducing the
shares they expect to sell to approximately 5.5 million shares in view
of this new price range.  This is a reduction of approximately 6.1
million shares.  In addition, the selling shareholders have granted the
underwriters the right to purchase approximately 2.9 million additional
shares of Class A common stock at the initial public offering price to
cover over-allotments.

Google and the underwriters requested that the Securities and Exchange
Commission declare the registration statement effective on Wednesday,
August 18, 2004 at 4:00 p.m. (Eastern Daylight Time).  We will send you
a notice of effectiveness once the registration statement has been
declared effective.  Google and the underwriters expect to close the
auction when the registration statement is declared effective.

Google plans to file an amendment to the registration statement
Wednesday morning.  We will notify you when the amendment to the
registration statement is filed, at which time you will be able to
obtain a copy of the updated prospectus from

      https://www.ipo.google.com/data/prospectus.html

If you have submitted a bid, you should access that prospectus and
carefully reconsider your bid(s).

We are sending this notice to everyone who obtained a bidder ID,
regardless of whether you have submitted a bid to purchase shares of
Google's Class A common stock in the offering.  You may also get a
similar notice from your brokerage firm.  Please note that placing a bid
does not guarantee that you will be allocated shares in the offering, if
it is completed.

Please do not reply to this email.  If you have questions regarding this
process, please contact your brokerage firm.

A registration statement relating to Google's Class A common stock has
been filed with the Securities and Exchange Commission but has not yet
become effective.  Google's Class A common stock may not be sold nor may
offers to buy be accepted prior to the time the registration statement
becomes effective.  This communication shall not constitute an offer to
sell or the solicitation of an offer to buy nor shall there be any sale
of Google's Class A common stock in any state in which such offer,
solicitation or sale would be unlawful prior to registration or
qualification under the securities laws of any such state.  No offer to
buy shares of Google's Class A common stock can be accepted and no part
of the purchase price can be received until the registration statement
has become effective, and any such offer may be withdrawn or revoked,
without obligation or commitment of any kind, at any time until the
notice of acceptance is sent after the effective date.
qwex
http://money.cnn.com/2004/08/18/technology...dex.htm?cnn=yes

it begins? today's thursday, but no trading, but found this:

QUOTE
Reuters
Nasdaq says Google has not opened for trading
Thursday August 19, 11:50 am ET


NEW YORK, Aug 19 (Reuters) - The Nasdaq Stock Market Inc (OTC BB:NDAQ.OB - News) said on Thursday that Google Inc. (NasdaqNM:GOOG - News) shares had not yet opened for trading.
"There were two trades, they should not have gone. The stock was not open for trading," said Ginger Stennett, a Nasdaq Marketwatch analyst.

She declined to comment further on what the problem was.


blink.gif

edit: shares open at $100...
edit 2: shares close at $100...
pretty stable for 22.28 million in volume
carloscai
The price last Friday at closing was $124 something. I wonder if it would go up further.
qwex
at 108 now...I could have at 100 and sold for a quick 8% tongue.gif
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