Basically, I have a Dell Dimension 4400 with 2 CDRW and 2 HDD. I have one CDRW and one HDD that came with the 'puter, and the other two are hooked up through an extra PCI controller card.

The original HDD is the "system" drive where the OS and programs run off of it. The second HDD is my "storage" drive where I keep documents and stuff on it. Seeing as how Dell had the cheapie 200GB drive deal, if I want to get in on a deal like that in the future, how do I install a 3rd HDD and copy all the stuff from my 2nd HDD to it? Or can I install a 3rd HDD at all?

I know I can use Ghost to transfer everything from the 1st HDD to the new one, but if I don't want to do it, how would I got abou it.

Not something I actually plan to do anytime soon, but curious if there is a deal in the future.

Thanks!

To install a 3rd HD, I think all you need to do is get another IDE PCI controller Card.

In the Dell Dimension 4400 are there two IDE controllers or just one? I'd imagine there are two.

You can run two devices off each IDE controller. Typically you will run one or two hard drives off the first IDE controller and a CD and DVD drive off the second.

The bottom line answer is yes, you can add another HDD. I would do this by adding it as a slave off the same IDE controller your main HDD is connected to. As an alternative, seeing how you already have a PCI controller card, you can move the CD drive off it and connect it to the same IDE controller the main CD drive is connected to. Then connect the new HDD to the PCI controller card as a slave to the one already connected.

Now, as far as transferring everything from the 1st HDD to the new HDD, are you talking about the drive with your OS or the drive you use for data? There are different methods and considerations for each and I just want to be clear before responding.

how many ide slots does your motherboard have? if it has 2 and you are only using one, then you can hook your new HD (harddrive) up to it. if it only has one, then look at your pci ide controller. how many slots does it have? if it has 2 and you are using each 1 for 1 device, you could add your new HD onto one of those ide cords. most pci ide controller cards come with 2slots to my knowledge, so i would think you have 2 devices hooked up to your motherboard and 2 devices hooked up to your pci ide controller. leaving room for 2 more devices (on 1 ide cord) to be hooked up toyour pci ide controller card. also, if you order a 200gig it should come with a pci controller card (i know it's true for maxtor, pretty sure for wd).

as for transfering data, once you get the new HD formatted it's as simple as copying and pasting in windows. there are many other ways, but this is probalby the easiest way.

oh, leave the HD with the os on it where it is. the HD that has the os on it has to be where you have it in order for the os to load. so odn't move that one.

hope this answers your question

Hey n99nyrwg, great minds think alike....and post at the same time

Thanks for the great input. As for the motherboard, if you go here:
http://docs.us.dell.com/docs/systems/dim44...hov.htm#1101565

it shows one primary IDE (HDD) and one secondary IDE (CD). From the sounds of your advice, that means I can still run one IDE cable with a slave to a second drive on EACH of those? I didn't know that because I thought secondary IDE meant slave Does that mean I didn't need to install that PCI IDE card???

I also had a problem with the ribbon cables with primary and slave plugs not being long enough to reach between the two devices

I don't know how Dell set up my OS drive and factory CDRW, but I set up my second HDD and CDRW as primary and slave on one cable to my PCI IDE card (came with Maxtor drive). I don't know if that IDE card has an extra slot.

To be honest, I don't know if I even have room in my case for a 3rd HDD! The idea was to replace my storage/data drive with this 3rd drive...There's also an awful lot of ribbon cable in my case.

Thanks a lot for the help. Very enlightening.

...it shows one primary IDE (HDD) and one secondary IDE (CD). From the sounds of your advice, that means I can still run one IDE cable with a slave to a second drive on EACH of those?
Yes. But know this: you shouldn't really run a HDD & CDRW on the same ribbon cable. CDRW runs at ATA33 where today's HDD's run at ATA100 or 133 (older HDD's run at ATA33 or 66). If you put a CD drive and HDD on the same ribbon cable the HDD will only run as fast as the CD drive - ATA33.

I didn't know that because I thought secondary IDE meant slave Does that mean I didn't need to install that PCI IDE card???
Well, yeah, sort of. Both the primary and secondary IDE connectors can have a master and slave deivce on each and you probably could have installed the second HDD as a slave to the original HDD. However there are reasons you may want to install a PCI IDE card or would have had to anyway, like if your BIOS wouldn't recognize the full capacity a large drive.

I don't know how Dell set up my OS drive and factory CDRW, but I set up my second HDD and CDRW as primary and slave on one cable to my PCI IDE card (came with Maxtor drive). I don't know if that IDE card has an extra slot.
You may want to rethink that configuration per my comments above. You're not realizing the true capabilities of the HDD this way.

I also had a problem with the ribbon cables with primary and slave plugs not being long enough to reach between the two devices
Common problem. You need longer ribbon cables.

There's also an awful lot of ribbon cable in my case.
You can get rounded ribbon cables which will clean up the inside of the case. Click here.

To be honest, I don't know if I even have room in my case for a 3rd HDD! The idea was to replace my storage/data drive with this 3rd drive.
Yeah, also very common. The thing with alot of the branded computers like Dell, HP, Compaq, etc. is that there isn't alot of room for expandability. Sometimes the computer is what it is and can't be configured differently without some creative thinking.

Thanks a lot for the help. Very enlightening.
Just sharing the knowledge

If I powered off my 'puter and switched cables around now (or in the very near future), would I need to reinstall drivers/adjust the bios/go through a major headache/etc, or is it something that would take care of itself automatically?

I will switch my two CDRWs to run on the secondary IDE, then run each HDD as primarys onto their own IDE controllers.

Will it matter which CDRW is primary and slave? I have an 8x and 32x, with the 8x currently being primary on the secondary IDE and the 32x being slave on PCI IDE card.

Thanks for the input --- my new hdd runs ata133, and I didn't know my CDRW was holding it back.

Good question.

If you take the 2nd CDRW and set is as a slave on the IDE controller with the original CDRW all should be good - automatic detection. If you notice the the computer takes a little longer to boot then go into the BIOS and have it redetect the drives. No big deal really.

If you took the 2nd HDD off the PCI IDE Controller and set it as a slave to the primary HDD the BIOS and OS should recgonize it and all should be good. However I'm not sure if you would receive any kind of error message from the OS because a known drive is missing. You may need to uninstall and remove the PCI IDE controller from the system. I'd be interested to know.

Another thing to be aware of is that if you move drives from one controller to another the drive letters for the moved drives may change, but you can always change them back to what they were.

In your situation I would just move the CDRW off the PCI IDE controller and connect it as a slave to the original CDRW. It doesn't matter which one is master and which one is slave. What matters is that they are jumpered and connected to the ribbon cable properly.

Been a while since I opened my box, and this is what I found:
My second HDD and CDRW were not set as primary/slave drives. They were each their own primary on the two slots of the PCI IDE card, which was causing the headache of superfluous cables.

My original CDRW did have a ribbon cable that allowed a slave drive, so I set the jumper on the 2nd CDRW as slave and plugged it in. I left the second HDD as its own primary to the IDE card. Computer booted up and automatically installed the drivers for the slave CDRW.

Now I have an extra slot on my IDE card for a future HDD and also an extra 3.5" slot underneath my floppy drive to house it (I think it can fit in there....the other two slots are filled with HDDs already). Also, by plugging in my CDRWs together as primary/slave to one controller, I have an extra cable handy, and a lot more room in my case!

Thanks for the lesson.

Hey, that's great! Glad it worked for you.

One more piece of information I'd like to pass along, just in case you weren't aware, is that there are two types of ribbon cables: 40 wire and 80 wire.

40 wire ribbon cables are typically used with CD/DVD drives and older ATA 33 & 66 hard drives. In order to get the benefit of ATA 100 or 133 hard drives you need to use 80 wire ribbon cables. An 80 wire cable should come in the box with the ATA 100/133 hard drive. The difference between 40 and 80 wire cables can be seen and felt. 40 wire cables will have thicker grooves than 80 wire cables.

You can use 80 wire ribbon cables with CD & DVD drives and you won't see any difference in drive performance. You can also use 40 wire ribbon cables with ATA 100 & 133 devices, but you won't realize the ATA 100 or 133 speeds.

Know your cables

Sorry to interrupt here, but my question is somewhat relevant , Alan . I am buying a new computer literally within the next week. Some vendors offer the newer Serial ATA hard drives. Is that something I should consider? What are the benefits?

The advantage of SATA over IDE is performance and thinner cables. Today, SATA runs at ATA150 and 300 & 600 are planned for the future - to be called SATA II and SATA III. Recent drives on the market have a rotation speed of 10,000 rpm (WD360, a/k/a Raptor). The thinner cables used to connect SATA hard drives makes for a cleaner system inside the case.

Some performance tests have shown that SATA doesn't give that much more performance than an ATA100/133 IDE hard drive, especially for the home user. If you asked me 6 months ago I would have said wait, but now the cost of an 80GB SATA hard drive vs. 80GB ATA133 hard drive is about the same (not taking into account coupons & rebates ).

I believe the future is with SATA. So, bottom line it all depends on you. If you want the latest and greatest technology, go for it.

Related question: I now have a 160GB HD & soon to have a 200GB HD (both WD)... does this mean I need two PCI cards for them?

Does this mean that I can have two SEPERATE <137GB HDs on the IDE cable?

Is there anyway to put >137GB HDs on the IDE cable?

Would a SATA connector allow me to use the regular HDs (>137GB) on the SATA line?

As of now, my new comp will have 200+160+120=480GB... assuming I put in 6 eventually, 3 more at 200GB each, hopefully; I'll be at my storage goal (1 Terabyte REAL, not binary, storage) within a year or so

Related question: I now have a 160GB HD & soon to have a 200GB HD (both WD)... does this mean I need two PCI cards for them?
No. You can connect both to the primary IDE controller.

Does this mean that I can have two SEPERATE <137GB HDs on the IDE cable?
Yes.

Is there anyway to put >137GB HDs on the IDE cable?
Yes. The OS and BIOS must support drives larger than 137GB though. XP SP1 supports drives larger than 137GB. You need to check with your motherboard manufacturer to see if your BIOS will support them.

Would a SATA connector allow me to use the regular HDs (>137GB) on the SATA line?
Yes.

Muchas gracias, Alan. I'm now skipping off to browse for a new machine.

hey alan. i didn't have time to check up on this thread till now, but i see you already thoroughly answered everyones question. i can't believe you beat me by a minute, i'm so ashamed.

your advice was valuable, too...

thanks for also caring enough to check up on things!