TIA!
Full Version: New Video Card: Recommendations, please
Which video card should I get? I'm looking at the Matrox Parhelia 128MB, but $300 for a video card seems a bit excessive -- I'm not a gamer; I'll be using it on an LCD w/ DVI. (I have a Matrox G550 & have been pleased w/ it.) Which other cards should I consider? Less than $300 is good
TIA!
TIA!
TI4200 or ATI 9600
count me in ............i need a video card too
I used to be a Matrox fan, but as much as I hate to say it, they just aren't competitive these days.
Nvidia makes nice cards (better performance than Matrox), but they also do not compare favorably to the current offerings from ATI in terms of image quality, speed (at the top of the line) and value for the dollar, in my opinion.
If you want great 2D and great (but not fastest possible) 3D, go for something like a Radeon 9500 128MB (it is based on the newer technology, similar to 9700 pro - in fact, the technology is so close, that early versions could be hacked to operate as a 9700 Pro, which is a $250 video card). You should be able to find one for in the $105 shipped range refurbed at Newegg if you check back in the mid afternoon a few days in a row. If you don't want a refurb, pay the extra $25-30 and get a new one (Newegg has the Sapphire version of this card for $139 shipped - if you want to have some possibility of hacking it, get the $141 red-PCB Sapphire version on a PCB with the same layout as the 9700 - it may or may not work as a 9700, but $2 isn't much extra to pay to keep open the possibility if you ever decide to try to hack it).
Try to get one manufactured by ATI or Sapphire, as I have read in reviews that they have the best image quality. With that card, you could also play a 3D game and enjoy it from time to time if you wanted to without the game play being painfully slow, even though it probably isn't the bleeding edge card that the hard core gamers will buy.
If you want something a bit faster but still reasonably priced, get a 9500 Pro (it has more pipelines enabled than the 9500). In fact, it could fairly be said that the 9500 Pro is a lower-clocked version of the 9700 Pro, only with 128-bit memory, instead of 256-bit (uses the same GPU chip, same number of pipelines, etc). The 9500 Pro 128MB card is a good value right now, but if you don't need speed, the 9500 will do everything it will do, just a bit slower. As a bonus, the 9500 and 9500 Pro are DirectX 9 compatible (not worth anything now, but might be at some point in the future). The 9500 Pro is getting VERY hard to find. The 9600 pro is a slightly more expensive, slightly lower-performing substitute for the 9500 Pro that ATI started making instead of the 9500 pro to save on production costs (which is actually based on a cooler-running, higher clocked, but more crippled core, giving performance just slightly less than a 9500 pro, but still very good).
I know Mackerdack is not a gamer, but if Cron is, and you want something close to top of the line, I have also seen Radeon 9700s (non-pro - just like pro only clocked a little slower, still has 256-bit memory, etc.) for as little as $160 refurbed or $200 new (new for $200 was Powercolor brand). If you do play some games, and really like performance, but don't have an unlimited budget, the 9700 non-pro is probably the way to go in terms of absolute bang for the buck for a gamer. If you are adventurous, you can probably flash the bios (voids warranty) and overclock it (not guaranteed) to 9700 pro levels, getting you to within about 10% of the performance of a 9800 Pro, which costs about twice as much.
Here is a link to an old but good article at Tom's Hardware describing what the current ATI offerings are, relative to each other, with the exception of the 9800 pro (which you probably wouldn't be interested in anyway, unless you want to spend almost $400 for a video card), and the 9600/9600 Pro, described above.
http://www17.tomshardware.com/graphic/20021202/
Nvidia makes nice cards (better performance than Matrox), but they also do not compare favorably to the current offerings from ATI in terms of image quality, speed (at the top of the line) and value for the dollar, in my opinion.
If you want great 2D and great (but not fastest possible) 3D, go for something like a Radeon 9500 128MB (it is based on the newer technology, similar to 9700 pro - in fact, the technology is so close, that early versions could be hacked to operate as a 9700 Pro, which is a $250 video card). You should be able to find one for in the $105 shipped range refurbed at Newegg if you check back in the mid afternoon a few days in a row. If you don't want a refurb, pay the extra $25-30 and get a new one (Newegg has the Sapphire version of this card for $139 shipped - if you want to have some possibility of hacking it, get the $141 red-PCB Sapphire version on a PCB with the same layout as the 9700 - it may or may not work as a 9700, but $2 isn't much extra to pay to keep open the possibility if you ever decide to try to hack it).
Try to get one manufactured by ATI or Sapphire, as I have read in reviews that they have the best image quality. With that card, you could also play a 3D game and enjoy it from time to time if you wanted to without the game play being painfully slow, even though it probably isn't the bleeding edge card that the hard core gamers will buy.
If you want something a bit faster but still reasonably priced, get a 9500 Pro (it has more pipelines enabled than the 9500). In fact, it could fairly be said that the 9500 Pro is a lower-clocked version of the 9700 Pro, only with 128-bit memory, instead of 256-bit (uses the same GPU chip, same number of pipelines, etc). The 9500 Pro 128MB card is a good value right now, but if you don't need speed, the 9500 will do everything it will do, just a bit slower. As a bonus, the 9500 and 9500 Pro are DirectX 9 compatible (not worth anything now, but might be at some point in the future). The 9500 Pro is getting VERY hard to find. The 9600 pro is a slightly more expensive, slightly lower-performing substitute for the 9500 Pro that ATI started making instead of the 9500 pro to save on production costs (which is actually based on a cooler-running, higher clocked, but more crippled core, giving performance just slightly less than a 9500 pro, but still very good).
I know Mackerdack is not a gamer, but if Cron is, and you want something close to top of the line, I have also seen Radeon 9700s (non-pro - just like pro only clocked a little slower, still has 256-bit memory, etc.) for as little as $160 refurbed or $200 new (new for $200 was Powercolor brand). If you do play some games, and really like performance, but don't have an unlimited budget, the 9700 non-pro is probably the way to go in terms of absolute bang for the buck for a gamer. If you are adventurous, you can probably flash the bios (voids warranty) and overclock it (not guaranteed) to 9700 pro levels, getting you to within about 10% of the performance of a 9800 Pro, which costs about twice as much.
Here is a link to an old but good article at Tom's Hardware describing what the current ATI offerings are, relative to each other, with the exception of the 9800 pro (which you probably wouldn't be interested in anyway, unless you want to spend almost $400 for a video card), and the 9600/9600 Pro, described above.
http://www17.tomshardware.com/graphic/20021202/
Wow, Nack. Nice!
Just want to add this link, also from Tom's Hardware Guide:
VGA Card Buyer's Guide 07/2003
Summary:
Choosing a new graphics card is not an easy decision. We've put together the THG VGA Buyer's Guide to help you with that decision. Our guide gives you an overview of all the latest offerings on the graphics card market.
Just want to add this link, also from Tom's Hardware Guide:
VGA Card Buyer's Guide 07/2003
Summary:
Choosing a new graphics card is not an easy decision. We've put together the THG VGA Buyer's Guide to help you with that decision. Our guide gives you an overview of all the latest offerings on the graphics card market.
Thanks to everyone for the suggestions. Nack, special thanks and kudos to you: your reply is incredibly informative!
If I go w/ a perhaps-hackable card, will you or someone else here tell me how to try to hack it???
If I go w/ a perhaps-hackable card, will you or someone else here tell me how to try to hack it???
Wow Nack...Thanks
That should be very helpful.
I might shoot for the 9500 or maybe pro............I'll have to do some shopping for pricing though
That should be very helpful.
I might shoot for the 9500 or maybe pro............I'll have to do some shopping for pricing though
mackerdack, hacking a vid card requires soldering and a great knowledge of electonic components -- its nothing like installing a CPU into a motherboard.
I'm in the process of figuring out how to hack my Sanyo 5300. trying to figure out what kind of resistors I need. needless to say, its a lot of work.
good luck
I'm in the process of figuring out how to hack my Sanyo 5300. trying to figure out what kind of resistors I need. needless to say, its a lot of work.
good luck
I think I'll leave the dang thing the way it comes in the box, then. T'anx, tolik!
I don't know about hacking a video card, but you can overclock a video card. Be aware that you run the risk of damaging the card if you don't do it right and it will most likely void the warranty.
There are plenty of websites with instructions on how to overclock a video card. Google at your own risk
There are plenty of websites with instructions on how to overclock a video card. Google at your own risk
http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/video/display...y/news6142.html
here is some info on hacking the 9500 -> 9700, of course, I haven't done it, because I've yet to find a game I want to play that my MX440 can't handle at 640x480--when I find one, maybe I'll get a new card
as I said, it ain't easy. if anyone wants to offer me tips on where to find info on what resistor is need for each diff't color LED, please PM me!
want to change my sanyo from the dull factory settings to green, purple, blue, and white on the outside/
here is some info on hacking the 9500 -> 9700, of course, I haven't done it, because I've yet to find a game I want to play that my MX440 can't handle at 640x480--when I find one, maybe I'll get a new card
as I said, it ain't easy. if anyone wants to offer me tips on where to find info on what resistor is need for each diff't color LED, please PM me!
want to change my sanyo from the dull factory settings to green, purple, blue, and white on the outside/
If you don't like the idea of removing heatsinks attached with thermal cement and moving surface-mount resistors around (FUN! 
), there is also a software mod (9500 non-pro -> 9700) that may or may not work. The page was apparently taken down due to threat of legal action (suggesting that it probably does work - and that ATI wants to sell some 9700s 
), but the Google cache still works! Again, if you are going to try this, be sure to get the 9500 NON-PRO 128MB version made by Sapphire with the red PCB, and the L-shaped memory configuration (same PCB as 9700/9700 Pro) since it is set up for the 256-bit memory interface, even though it is apparently disabled to 128-bit if you run the card as a regular 9500.
http://216.239.53.104/search?q=cache:Qj7QS...&hl=en&ie=UTF-8
Mackerdack,
I'll be happy to help you if I can. I have not done the hardware mod on this particular card card (although I have done a few other hardware mod projects that involve soldering). I found out about it when I was researching to get a video card, then I got too busy to play games anyway, so I decided to put off buying one for a while. Now I am in the market again. I MIGHT try it if I decide to get a 9500. As I said, I have had SOME soldering experience, and I have recently done the +5V mod on my Enermax power supply (to stop my cheap Epox board from randomly re-booting itself because the +5V rail on the PSU wasn't stable enough). I think I could probably do the Radeon 9500 to 9700 mod, but like you, I am thinking about whether I want to try (particularly if I can get a real 9700 for $160 refurbed, and just overclock the heck out of it with only a bios flash and some overclocking software, without the need for a hardware mod). The software mod on the 9500 non-pro is interesting though, so maybe I'll save the $50 and try it. Probably depends on which I see at newegg refurbed first...
Nack
), there is also a software mod (9500 non-pro -> 9700) that may or may not work. The page was apparently taken down due to threat of legal action (suggesting that it probably does work - and that ATI wants to sell some 9700s ), but the Google cache still works! Again, if you are going to try this, be sure to get the 9500 NON-PRO 128MB version made by Sapphire with the red PCB, and the L-shaped memory configuration (same PCB as 9700/9700 Pro) since it is set up for the 256-bit memory interface, even though it is apparently disabled to 128-bit if you run the card as a regular 9500.http://216.239.53.104/search?q=cache:Qj7QS...&hl=en&ie=UTF-8
Mackerdack,
I'll be happy to help you if I can. I have not done the hardware mod on this particular card card (although I have done a few other hardware mod projects that involve soldering). I found out about it when I was researching to get a video card, then I got too busy to play games anyway, so I decided to put off buying one for a while. Now I am in the market again. I MIGHT try it if I decide to get a 9500. As I said, I have had SOME soldering experience, and I have recently done the +5V mod on my Enermax power supply (to stop my cheap Epox board from randomly re-booting itself because the +5V rail on the PSU wasn't stable enough). I think I could probably do the Radeon 9500 to 9700 mod, but like you, I am thinking about whether I want to try (particularly if I can get a real 9700 for $160 refurbed, and just overclock the heck out of it with only a bios flash and some overclocking software, without the need for a hardware mod). The software mod on the 9500 non-pro is interesting though, so maybe I'll save the $50 and try it. Probably depends on which I see at newegg refurbed first...
Nack
Thanks, Nack! I really appreciate your generous offer of assistance. I'm pondering ....
Good resource, Nack. I know a person who has successfuly done the software hack.
PS anyone know why the mac v pc thread is locked?
PS anyone know why the mac v pc thread is locked?
QUOTE(theshopper @ 07-20-2003 - 02:39 PM)
PS anyone know why the mac v pc thread is locked?
The OP locked it. Read the last reply.
Oops, missed that. I speed read the info and stopped when I saw 'bought XXXX'. I guess it was locked to avoid the Mac v. PC debates.
Yeah, that's no problem about locking that other thread. He was probably just trying to avoid the possibility of a troll coming along and turning it into a Mac vs. PC flamefest. I don't think there was much chance that would have happened here at B$, but I have seen some major ones get really nasty over at FW and AT on that subject. There are three things you just don't talk about on most message boards: Politics, abortion, and Macs vs. PCs.
Does anyone manufacture the Radeon 9500, 9600, or 9700 w/ dual DVIs? The only ones I've found so far are VGA/DVI, not DVI/DVI. I don't have to have 2 DVIs, but . . . well . . . I'm optimistic
QUOTE(mackerdack @ 07-23-2003 - 11:35 PM)
Does anyone manufacture the Radeon 9500, 9600, or 9700 w/ dual DVIs? The only ones I've found so far are VGA/DVI, not DVI/DVI. I don't have to have 2 DVIs, but . . . well . . . I'm optimistic
As far as I can tell, ATI (or any other company) does not make a Radeon 9XXX card with dual DVI. Matrox makes a card like that, but you have to sacrifice performance if you go with Matrox.
I did find this:
http://www.smallformfactor.net/dvi/
On some of the ATI Radeon 9XXX dual head cards, you can run an independent display off of the TV out, and another one off of the DVI, but that still would not drive two DVI panels...
Thanks, Nack! I think I'll worry about dual DVIs when I have dual LCDs 
QUOTE(mackerdack @ 07-24-2003 - 06:59 PM)
Thanks, Nack! I think I'll worry about dual DVIs when I have dual LCDs
Dual LCDs would be a great problem to have! Maybe someday I'll get a couple myself, but for now my trusty single LCD will have to do.
YGPM re the retail box video card you asked about, and the one at Newegg...
I have the ATI 9000Pro. It has both DVI and VGA connectors. You can run dual monitors off it with one monitor connected to each connector. Of course, only one will be DVI though.
Right now I have 2 CRT's connected. The card comes with a DVI to VGA adapter to allow this.
Right now I have 2 CRT's connected. The card comes with a DVI to VGA adapter to allow this.
I finally decided to go ahead and make the purchase. Unfortunately, between the time we discussed video cards and now, the prices have gone up. Last night, I found the 9500 pro at gogocity.com for $180, so I printed out the page and went to my local CC. They had the 9500 pro for $229, but they were willing to PM gogocity, so I got the card for $170 + tax. (The manager didn't include gogocity's $8.95 shipping charge.) I was going to post the gogocity link (in case someone else wanted to try a PM), but the page now says "We're sorry, this product is not currently available."
Thanks for all the input. This is one sweet card!
Thanks for all the input. This is one sweet card!
I think you'll be very happy with that card.
I happen to like ATI product over nVidia (personal preference) and it seems so does Microsoft. Looks like nVidia is out of the XBox.
Press Release Source: Microsoft Corp.
Microsoft and ATI Technologies Announce Technology Development Agreement
Thursday August 14, 8:01 am ET
ATI Graphics Technologies to Power Future Xbox Products and Services
REDMOND, Wash., Aug. 14 /PRNewswire-FirstCall/ -- Microsoft Corp. (Nasdaq: MSFT - News) today announced it has entered into a technology development agreement with ATI Technologies Inc. (Nasdaq: ATYT - News; TSX: ATY - News). Under the agreement, ATI is developing custom, leading-edge graphics technologies for use in future Xbox® products and services.
"We're combining Microsoft's vision, software experience and R&D resources with ATI's pioneering leadership in graphics technologies to create innovative future Xbox products and services that meet the lifestyle needs of consumers in the Digital Decade," said Robbie Bach, senior vice president of the Home and Entertainment Division at Microsoft. "We selected ATI after reviewing the top graphics technologies in development and determining that ATI's technical vision fits perfectly with the future direction of Xbox."
"Microsoft shares our passion for cutting-edge innovation," said K. Y. Ho, chairman and chief executive officer, ATI Technologies Inc. "Our success working with Microsoft in the past gives us great confidence as we move forward, and our broad experience and wealth of engineering resources will ensure that we deliver. This agreement cements ATI's position as the prime graphics supplier for the future of the games industry."
I happen to like ATI product over nVidia (personal preference) and it seems so does Microsoft. Looks like nVidia is out of the XBox.
Press Release Source: Microsoft Corp.
Microsoft and ATI Technologies Announce Technology Development Agreement
Thursday August 14, 8:01 am ET
ATI Graphics Technologies to Power Future Xbox Products and Services
REDMOND, Wash., Aug. 14 /PRNewswire-FirstCall/ -- Microsoft Corp. (Nasdaq: MSFT - News) today announced it has entered into a technology development agreement with ATI Technologies Inc. (Nasdaq: ATYT - News; TSX: ATY - News). Under the agreement, ATI is developing custom, leading-edge graphics technologies for use in future Xbox® products and services.
"We're combining Microsoft's vision, software experience and R&D resources with ATI's pioneering leadership in graphics technologies to create innovative future Xbox products and services that meet the lifestyle needs of consumers in the Digital Decade," said Robbie Bach, senior vice president of the Home and Entertainment Division at Microsoft. "We selected ATI after reviewing the top graphics technologies in development and determining that ATI's technical vision fits perfectly with the future direction of Xbox."
"Microsoft shares our passion for cutting-edge innovation," said K. Y. Ho, chairman and chief executive officer, ATI Technologies Inc. "Our success working with Microsoft in the past gives us great confidence as we move forward, and our broad experience and wealth of engineering resources will ensure that we deliver. This agreement cements ATI's position as the prime graphics supplier for the future of the games industry."
I'm still looking for a card.......
I noticed that nobody mentioned the All-In-Wonder versions of the Radeon cards
-------------------
I was thinking of using my video card as some sort of PVR on my hard drive.
Is there any difference if i bought a regular card versus an All-In-Wonder????
It just seems like there are better deals on the regular versions.
Would it make a difference in the PVR function if i bought a regular card?
thanks for your help.
I noticed that nobody mentioned the All-In-Wonder versions of the Radeon cards
-------------------
I was thinking of using my video card as some sort of PVR on my hard drive.
Is there any difference if i bought a regular card versus an All-In-Wonder????
It just seems like there are better deals on the regular versions.
Would it make a difference in the PVR function if i bought a regular card?
thanks for your help.
QUOTE(cron @ 09-28-2003 - 01:04 PM)
I was thinking of using my video card as some sort of PVR on my hard drive.
Cron - I've thought about this too. I've used an ATI All-in-wonder once before (I think it was the first version of the card ever) and found it to my liking. Did some vidcaps with it, and I was pleased. But these new versions seem to be much better, and you can use them as PVRs. I've been interested in this as well.
I've read at least once or twice that the All-in-wonder cards don't work with particular PVR software. I can't recall where, so I'm not certain about this, but I do recall reading it. It could have been fixed since, for instance ATI might have released hardware specs or something like that so people can write the driver properly. Can't say for sure. What I can do is recommend the Leadtek Winfast TV Deluxe card (review here). You can pick it up for around $50 or less at Newegg, and it comes with an FM radio tuner and a remote control. It also comes with some PVR software.
So I would highly recommend the ATI Radeon cards and then picking up a Leadtek card for your TV tuner. You can try the linux PVR method or use the leadtek software and try a site like http://www.titantv.com/ to get your listings - turns your computer into a nice tivo/replaytv style device.
There are better capture cards than the 2000 xp deluxe, but for the price it's a good choice.
QUOTE(dewolfxy @ 09-29-2003 - 01:37 PM)
So I would highly recommend the ATI Radeon cards and then picking up a Leadtek card for your TV tuner. You can try the linux PVR method or use the leadtek software and try a site like http://www.titantv.com/ to get your listings - turns your computer into a nice tivo/replaytv style device.
Thanks for the info.
The nice thing about all this is that Staples now carries Radeons. PM'ing staples pricing to some of the pricegrabber pricing should create some very nice deals.
I think the pricing might be better for the NON-allinwonder cards...
I'll try to get a good deal at staples for a Radeon and then pick up a tuner.
My guess is that getting a tv tuner separately would be better. Probably has a better design. My only worry was getting a tv tuner and the possible chance that it didn't work too well with my video card or something.
Thanks again
I wonder if staples carries the Leadtek....hehehe
Leadtek card at newegg is now $46 with a free newegg t-shirt. My first tv tuner card and I love it.
Question, though -- will improving my video card (currently only a dell-installed-mx440) improve my tv watching experience?
Question, though -- will improving my video card (currently only a dell-installed-mx440) improve my tv watching experience?
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